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Geopolitical concerns
- Thread starter braindoc
- Start date
braindoc
100+ Posts
Hello Kportgrl - We will be at the other end of the coumtry. Venice, Bologna, Florence, and Rome - 16 nights total. This was not our original plan as I explained in my post under the Macerata heading. All familiar spots, but still lots to see and do.
If you go to Taormina, check out Osteria Nero D’Avola. Don’t be shocked when, not if, you see Sicilians drinking red wine with their fish.
If you go to Taormina, check out Osteria Nero D’Avola. Don’t be shocked when, not if, you see Sicilians drinking red wine with their fish.
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
I'm not in Italy, so speaking from broader experience in the country
In short, the rest of the world carries on (even if there is widespread sadness / disillusionment at the never-ending cycle of violence and animosity).
There will be some people (whether Palestinian or Israeli leaning) for whom it's a massive moment, but it's only likely to gain attention through an organised rally or similar event that might result in people leaning in the other direction feeling the need to balance the messaging / present the opposing view. Usually rallies in Italy are something we'll encounter, be intrigued what it's about (and may try to work it out), but they or we will pass by and get on with our days.
If one is playing it super safe, then seeing a march / rally on this issue would be one that ought to be actively avoided. The smaller the city / gathering, the less I'd be concerned.
e.g. this tiny incident in Sheffield, England.
The precis is the council decided to raise the Israeli flag on the town hall building, which some people thought was inappropriate, so climbed up and took it down and replaced it with a Palestinian flag.
It made the news, but the effect on ordinary people / tourists was nil. I'd expect similar lack of impact to tourists.
That said, there's no point at this point in time of presenting an obvious emblem of either religion or nationality, so for instance my rucksack had an Israeli or Palestinian flag sewn on, I'd take it off for a trip this month. Likewise if religion dictates the head be covered, put tradition slightly to one side, and wear a baseball cap or similar. Brief pragmatism is entirely sensible. The world could use a little more of it.
Would I visit a Jewish museum / memorial? I don't think even this major escalation would change my mindset and while there *might* be an added risk, it's likely to be so tiny that it's best dismissed. Do what you would normally have done, and bring that calm normality to others.
In short, the rest of the world carries on (even if there is widespread sadness / disillusionment at the never-ending cycle of violence and animosity).
There will be some people (whether Palestinian or Israeli leaning) for whom it's a massive moment, but it's only likely to gain attention through an organised rally or similar event that might result in people leaning in the other direction feeling the need to balance the messaging / present the opposing view. Usually rallies in Italy are something we'll encounter, be intrigued what it's about (and may try to work it out), but they or we will pass by and get on with our days.
If one is playing it super safe, then seeing a march / rally on this issue would be one that ought to be actively avoided. The smaller the city / gathering, the less I'd be concerned.
e.g. this tiny incident in Sheffield, England.
The precis is the council decided to raise the Israeli flag on the town hall building, which some people thought was inappropriate, so climbed up and took it down and replaced it with a Palestinian flag.
Man scales Sheffield town hall to remove Israeli flag
Footage shows the flag being replaced with a Palestinian flag during a demonstration on Tuesday.
www.bbc.co.uk
It made the news, but the effect on ordinary people / tourists was nil. I'd expect similar lack of impact to tourists.
That said, there's no point at this point in time of presenting an obvious emblem of either religion or nationality, so for instance my rucksack had an Israeli or Palestinian flag sewn on, I'd take it off for a trip this month. Likewise if religion dictates the head be covered, put tradition slightly to one side, and wear a baseball cap or similar. Brief pragmatism is entirely sensible. The world could use a little more of it.
Would I visit a Jewish museum / memorial? I don't think even this major escalation would change my mindset and while there *might* be an added risk, it's likely to be so tiny that it's best dismissed. Do what you would normally have done, and bring that calm normality to others.
Parigi
100+ Posts
You can consult the State Department travel updaes.
And even then, I am only concerned by actual warfare or rampant kidnapping (and not so uch re the latter).
As for terrorism, it is not like any other crime. You can't do any prevent measures. You can't learn street smarts against it. It can hit you in your hometown. Exhibit A: the horrific domestic terrorism like the Oklahoma City bombing, killing more than 150 in one go. Therefore continue your travel plans and control what you can control, like being alert against pickpockets.
And even then, I am only concerned by actual warfare or rampant kidnapping (and not so uch re the latter).
As for terrorism, it is not like any other crime. You can't do any prevent measures. You can't learn street smarts against it. It can hit you in your hometown. Exhibit A: the horrific domestic terrorism like the Oklahoma City bombing, killing more than 150 in one go. Therefore continue your travel plans and control what you can control, like being alert against pickpockets.
Alpinista
100+ Posts
Likewise got home yesterday after flight from Rome to DC. Thought there would be added airport security, but nothing evident.
We were in Italy in 1986 when the US bombed Libya and there were armored personnel carriers around the embassy, the downtown McDonalds (!!), and the American Express office. At the airport that year, all passengers with Arabic country passports were taken to a different processing line and all the bags for the rest of us were opened and emptied as part of the preboarding process. Times change....
We were in Italy in 1986 when the US bombed Libya and there were armored personnel carriers around the embassy, the downtown McDonalds (!!), and the American Express office. At the airport that year, all passengers with Arabic country passports were taken to a different processing line and all the bags for the rest of us were opened and emptied as part of the preboarding process. Times change....
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
As an aside, it's been reported that facial imaging has been used recently for big / specific events in the UK e.g. concerts and the coronation. The ethics of this is a whole different debate for a site other than one about travel, but shows that as technology moves on, there may be less visible policing replacing more visible deterrents.
AI facial recognition: Campaigners and MPs call for ban
AI-powered facial recognition has been used in real time by police forces and private companies.
www.bbc.co.uk
italian excursion
100+ Posts
OK, this is a tough one because once we take a side we have made someone who is just human like we are, the bad guy. The only "bad guys" in any war are the leaders who have their own agendas which have little to do with the people of their country. As a Jew, I must say that there are NO sides for me. We all have the same feelings, suffer the same injustices, celebrate the same, want the same things for our loved ones. As a student of "religious" studies I will never be rid of the appalling sense of shame in which we use it (religiosity) to terrorize one another. I do agree with what Ian said and thank him for articulating it so well.
As for travel in Italy, what Ian said about small towns, etc., is what I saw when I was there a few weeks ago. Life does go on if one is not in the center of the battle. Staying safe means not engaging in most cases if there are protests, etc.
I wish us all well, safe travels and solutions or acceptance for our differences.
Cheryl
As for travel in Italy, what Ian said about small towns, etc., is what I saw when I was there a few weeks ago. Life does go on if one is not in the center of the battle. Staying safe means not engaging in most cases if there are protests, etc.
I wish us all well, safe travels and solutions or acceptance for our differences.
Cheryl
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
Thank you Cheryl, and indeed I'll also very much the echo your feeling of upset/anger at politicians / activists who prosper and profit from conflict, and huge sympathy for civilians whose lives are blighted by the actions of those that seek war/conflict. I cannot support either side's aggression, but instead feel sadness and sympathy for the civilians on either side of the divide.
We generally don't get to choose our nationality and we certainly don't get to choose our ethnicity. Instead we do get to choose our own values, and you should have no shame about your own words & thoughts here. Not only do they reflect well on you, they also help offer a different narrative / perspective, one that I'd love to see get greater voice.
I never had a belief Northern Ireland would escape its own cycle of violence, but it mostly has. There were a few factors that came together, but mostly some brave people who no longer wanted their future framed by violence. Included in their number were mothers who had lost children to 'the troubles'. When they found a platform, theirs was a most powerful message that bridged religion/politics with shared humanity.
I've since visited Belfast (and nearby Bangor), something that would have felt suicidally reckless for an Englishman in my youth. There's still some residual hanging onto the divisions, but their voice is diminished. It's now a good / interesting and pretty safe place to visit, one I'd recommend.
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