Itinerary Advice Please

[sharonov]

We’ve been to England many times—I even lived in London for 6 months—but of course have not been everywhere on the island by any means. I’m putting together a visit for next Fall, and would like to solicit any comments or feedback you might want to give.

First of all, I should mention that my husband had given up going across the Atlantic. We’re both 82, but he feels it way more than I do. Therefore I’ve taken several trips, to Portugal, Spain, and the 5 Stans, alone. But recently something made him want to go to Bath! So I jumped on that and made flight reservations already for next fall—9/9 (my birthday) to 9/30! Here’s my itinerary so far:
9/10-9/12 London
9/13-9/15. Liverpool (we’ve never been and are part of the Beatles generation)
9/16-9/18. Coney, Wales (less than 2 hours by bus from Liverpool and reportedly beautiful)
9/19-9/20 - Mid Wales (to break up 6 hour train ride)
9/21-9/28. Bath, with day trips to Wells, etc
9/29 London
9/30. Home

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

 

[JMichael]

I assume neither of you have mobility issues and can handle getting your luggage on and off trains. The series of short stays would be tough for me. Are all your arrivals early enough in the morning to give you enough time to explore a location? I would probably shave a day from Bath and add it to Liverpool (also a Beatles fan). I see the train and bus between Conwy and Bath takes several hours where the direct road route, according to Rome2Rio takes 3.5 hrs. Any chance you could skip the mid-Wales break by hiring a driver or renting a car?

 

[Ian Sutton]

The general directional flow seems sound. A solid loop, plus some lovely variety of locations.

However I'd also question the mid-wales stop given it's not got the convenience of a car 'road trip'. Trains can still be tiring, but you can move about, see some scenery, eat a pre-organised picnic, read a newspaper, etc. and so even a 6 hour journey is probably best done in one go rather than breaking the journey. That gives you ~ 2 extra days, and Liverpool might grab one as there's plenty to see there, as well as exploring outside.

Is there any chance of flying direct to Liverpool (or Manchester)? London can be dreadfully hectic at the start of a trip, so getting straight to Liverpool might be a more relaxing option, with the London days tacked onto the end instead.

Chester well worth considering for a day trip out of liverpool. It's a city with tradition but ever changing modernity. There's a decent metro system.

Hope this helps

 

[sharonov]

I assume neither of you have mobility issues and can handle getting your luggage on and off trains. The series of short stays would be tough for me. Are all your arrivals early enough in the morning to give you enough time to explore a location? I would probably shave a day from Bath and add it to Liverpool (also a Beatles fan). I see the train and bus between Conwy and Bath takes several hours where the direct road route, according to Rome2Rio takes 3.5 hrs. Any chance you could skip the mid-Wales break by hiring a driver or renting a car?

We’re over 80 so can’t rent anymore. Also, we’re a little nervous about driving on the other side. Hmmm. Maybe hiring a driver would do it.

 

[sharonov]

The general directional flow seems sound. A solid loop, plus some lovely variety of locations.

However I'd also question the mid-wales stop given it's not got the convenience of a car 'road trip'. Trains can still be tiring, but you can move about, see some scenery, eat a pre-organised picnic, read a newspaper, etc. and so even a 6 hour journey is probably best done in one go rather than breaking the journey. That gives you ~ 2 extra days, and Liverpool might grab one as there's plenty to see there, as well as exploring outside.

Is there any chance of flying direct to Liverpool (or Manchester)? London can be dreadfully hectic at the start of a trip, so getting straight to Liverpool might be a more relaxing option, with the London days tacked onto the end instead.

Chester well worth considering for a day trip out of liverpool. It's a city with tradition but ever changing modernity. There's a decent metro system.

Hope this helps

Thanks, Ian. I think I need to read up on Liverpool before deciding. Good suggestions.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm assuming you mean Conwy (rather than Coney?) The itinerary makes sense and I would agree with Ian about taking out the Mid Wales stop.

I'd also consider adding an extra night to Conwy - it is a lovely area and there is plenty to do and see in the town with its ruined Castle, walk along part of the town walls, Plas Mawr (a restored Elizabethan town house), walk across the Suspension Bridge, boat ride... Llandudno, a Victorian seaside resort with pier and traditional Punch and Judy show, is just a short bus ride and also worth a visit. Catch the heritage bus tour round the Great Orme or take the Victorian Tram to the top. Bodnant Gardens (done by bus from Conwy) are a delight and has a good tea room.

Check out what Beatles related activities you want to do and see in Liverpool and work out if you need to add an extra night there.

The itinerary is possibly unbalanced with a lot of time in Bath. Yes it can be used as a base for places like Wells and Bristol. Again work out what you want to do and see there and if you can take out time to add elsewhere.

Again Ian's suggestion of Chester is well worth thinking about. It is Cheshire's answer to York but without the crowds... It is a vibrant city with a lot of black and white buidings in the centre (The Rows are unique and well worth exploring, even if you aren't great shoppers). You can also walk all the way round the walls and don't miss the Cathedral or the ruined castle. again you can do a boat ride on the river. It makes a lovely day out - or even longer!

 

[sharonov]

I'm assuming you mean Conwy (rather than Coney?) The itinerary makes sense and I would agree with Ian about taking out the Mid Wales stop.

I'd also consider adding an extra night to Conwy - it is a lovely area and there is plenty to do and see in the town with its ruined Castle, walk along part of the town walls, Plas Mawr (a restored Elizabethan town house), walk across the Suspension Bridge, boat ride... Llandudno, a Victorian seaside resort with pier and traditional Punch and Judy show, is just a short bus ride and also worth a visit. Catch the heritage bus tour round the Great Orme or take the Victorian Tram to the top. Bodnant Gardens (done by bus from Conwy) are a delight and has a good tea room.

Check out what Beatles related activities you want to do and see in Liverpool and work out if you need to add an extra night there.

The itinerary is possibly unbalanced with a lot of time in Bath. Yes it can be used as a base for places like Wells and Bristol. Again work out what you want to do and see there and if you can take out time to add elsewhere.

Again Ian's suggestion of Chester is well worth thinking about. It is Cheshire's answer to York but without the crowds... It is a vibrant city with a lot of black and white buidings in the centre (The Rows are unique and well worth exploring, even if you aren't great shoppers). You can also walk all the way round the walls and don't miss the Cathedral or the ruined castle. again you can do a boat ride on the river. It makes a lovely day out - or even longer!

Thank you so much! I'm now revising our itinerary based on your answers. Eleanor, I remember your suggestions for Scotland when we visited 7 or 8 years ago, and I consulted them almost every day. And yes, I did mean Conwy--it was a typo. I was in Wales last year and Conwy was on my radar, but I was alone and ended up doing a Rabbies tour that didn't go that far north.

 

[sharonov]

So, here is my revised itinerary:

9'9: Chicago - London (tickets already purchased)
9/10: London - Liverpool (train from Euston)
9/15. Conwy
9/20. train to Bath
9/26. train to London
9/30 London-Chicago

That gives 5 nights in Liverpool (including a day trip to Chester)
5 nights in Conwy
6 nights in Bath (with day trips to Wells and maybe Glastonbury)
4 nights in London (we have friends to see)

How does the revised trip look? I should mention that although this seems early, we vastly prefer Airbnb's to hotels for stays of longer than 2-3 nights, and the good ones book fast. If you know Liverpool, is Mersyside a good area to stay?

 

[Eleanor]

That looks great. From Conwy you can also get to Anglesey and Beaumaris. This has another ruined castle surrounded by a moat as well as well as the goal. There's also a bus to Caernarfon - another walled town (although you can't walk round the walls here) and ruined castle. There is also Segontium Roman Fort.

Catch a bus or train to Betws y Coed

Catch a train up the Conwy valley to Blaenau Ffestiniog and catch the bus to Llechwedd Slate Caverns. Ignore the Zip World and think about doing the underground tour into the mine and learn about what it was like to be a C19th slate miner...

 

[Ian Sutton]

If that itinerary feels good to you, then FWIW I think it looks nicely balanced.

One additional thought (and one it's always worth asking the question of on a round trip)... would it be better done in reverse?

I'd still agree in just that one night in London (assuming the plane arrives too late to make it to Bath that day without stress). However London to Bath is an easier trip, coming in under 90 mins, and as it goes from Paddington, it's very convenient for the heathrow express if you can fit it into the arrival day. If not, then a 1 night hotel near Paddington makes logistics easy. Worth also seeing what deals are available, as we got a lovely apartment in Mayfair one year, for cheaper than a humdrum hotel, and just for one night.

Bath perhaps a more peaceful 1st base, with walking around very much part of the place (but my, do bring some good cushioned shoes). Walking / quieter locations often best for getting over the flight.

Conwy then a lovely rural escape.

Liverpool then brings you a big city perspective, with the bustle that goes with that, preparing you well for London to finish.

 

[Eleanor]

I've been rethinking the suggestion of the deep mine trip at Llechwedd and it may not be one of my better suggestions as it can be quite strenuous. Never the less, if time allows Blaenau Ffestiniog is worth considering as it was once the slate capital of the world and is still surrounded by the remains of slate mining. It's a lovely rural run on the train up the Conwy valley to Dollwyddelen. The train then goes through a long tunnel and emerges into the slate landscape of Blaenau Ffestiniog. It is a complete contrast.

The Conwy valley line station is next to that of the Ffestiniog Railway and you may have chance to see the narrow gauge steam hauled Ffestiniog train. There is now only one return service from Blaenau Ffestiniog which leaves at 11.40 and the return journey takes 4.5 hours which allows for a very long stop in Porthmadog.The service from Portmadog arrives about ten minutes later and waits in Blaenau for about an hour before returning to Portmadog.

I've written several travel articles you might find useful...
Chester
Conwy
Llandudno
Betws y Coed
Bodnant Gardens (you won't see the laburnum arch but the fall colours should make up for that.)
Edward I's castles in North Wales - has detailed descriptions of Conwy, Carnarfon and Beaumaris
Bath and the Roman Baths
Wells (this includes the Abbey but not the Bishop's Palace. I didn't have time to visit but it is on the list for next time!)

 

[sharonov]

If that itinerary feels good to you, then FWIW I think it looks nicely balanced.

One additional thought (and one it's always worth asking the question of on a round trip)... would it be better done in reverse?

I'd still agree in just that one night in London (assuming the plane arrives too late to make it to Bath that day without stress). However London to Bath is an easier trip, coming in under 90 mins, and as it goes from Paddington, it's very convenient for the heathrow express if you can fit it into the arrival day. If not, then a 1 night hotel near Paddington makes logistics easy. Worth also seeing what deals are available, as we got a lovely apartment in Mayfair one year, for cheaper than a humdrum hotel, and just for one night.

Bath perhaps a more peaceful 1st base, with walking around very much part of the place (but my, do bring some good cushioned shoes). Walking / quieter locations often best for getting over the flight.

Conwy then a lovely rural escape.

Liverpool then brings you a big city perspective, with the bustle that goes with that, preparing you well for London to finish.

Good idea and well worth considering. Luckily I've only booked my first Airbnb--in Conwy, which would give us the flexibility of doing Bath first. However, since we live in downtown Chicago, actually Liverpool will not be a jolt--if anything, it may be quieter! But you've got me thinking. I'm not looking forward to getting to Euston from Paddington; Some of the walks are pretty long even if there's a direct line from station to station. Taxis are great but can take longer because of traffic. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Andrew]

Is 9/9 your arrival date in London, or the departure date of an overnight flight, so no overnight in London in the itinerary in post #8?

 

[sharonov]

I've been rethinking the suggestion of the deep mine trip at Llechwedd and it may not be one of my better suggestions as it can be quite strenuous. Never the less, if time allows Blaenau Ffestiniog is worth considering as it was once the slate capital of the world and is still surrounded by the remains of slate mining. It's a lovely rural run on the train up the Conwy valley to Dollwyddelen. The train then goes through a long tunnel and emerges into the slate landscape of Blaenau Ffestiniog. It is a complete contrast.

The Conwy valley line station is next to that of the Ffestiniog Railway and you may have chance to see the narrow gauge steam hauled Ffestiniog train. There is now only one return service from Blaenau Ffestiniog which leaves at 11.40 and the return journey takes 4.5 hours which allows for a very long stop in Porthmadog.The service from Portmadog arrives about ten minutes later and waits in Blaenau for about an hour before returning to Portmadog.

I've written several travel articles you might find useful...
Chester
Conwy
Llandudno
Betws y Coed
Bodnant Gardens (you won't see the laburnum arch but the fall colours should make up for that.)
Edward I's castles in North Wales - has detailed descriptions of Conwy, Carnarfon and Beaumaris
Bath and the Roman Baths
Wells (this includes the Abbey but not the Bishop's Palace. I didn't have time to visit but it is on the list for next time!)

Is 9/9 your arrival date in London, or the departure date of an overnight flight, so no overnight in London in the itinerary in post #8?

We leave the 9th, arrive the 10th, at 8am. That’s too early to check in most places, so might as well use the time to get to our next location, then rest.

 

[sharonov]

I've been rethinking the suggestion of the deep mine trip at Llechwedd and it may not be one of my better suggestions as it can be quite strenuous. Never the less, if time allows Blaenau Ffestiniog is worth considering as it was once the slate capital of the world and is still surrounded by the remains of slate mining. It's a lovely rural run on the train up the Conwy valley to Dollwyddelen. The train then goes through a long tunnel and emerges into the slate landscape of Blaenau Ffestiniog. It is a complete contrast.

The Conwy valley line station is next to that of the Ffestiniog Railway and you may have chance to see the narrow gauge steam hauled Ffestiniog train. There is now only one return service from Blaenau Ffestiniog which leaves at 11.40 and the return journey takes 4.5 hours which allows for a very long stop in Porthmadog.The service from Portmadog arrives about ten minutes later and waits in Blaenau for about an hour before returning to Portmadog.

I've written several travel articles you might find useful...
Chester
Conwy
Llandudno
Betws y Coed
Bodnant Gardens (you won't see the laburnum arch but the fall colours should make up for that.)
Edward I's castles in North Wales - has detailed descriptions of Conwy, Carnarfon and Beaumaris
Bath and the Roman Baths
Wells (this includes the Abbey but not the Bishop's Palace. I didn't have time to visit but it is on the list for next time!)

Thanks for these articles, we’ll read them all! As for the mine, we once went through one in Pennsylvania which was depressing and horrifying at the same time. It also was very deep and very strenuous. Our guide was an older man who had worked in the mine in his youth and had also seen combat in Viet Nam. I’ll never forget what he said—the mine was the worst of the two.

 

[Ian Sutton]

We leave the 9th, arrive the 10th, at 8am. That’s too early to check in most places, so might as well use the time to get to our next location, then rest.

Given say *90mins to clear Heathrow, half an hour to get to Paddington, and 2 hours more to get to Bath, that's hitting ~midday. Still early, but often feasible for check-in then.

If sticking to the original loop, there is a near direct option, taking not the heathrow express, but the longer tube journey from heathrow (terminal 2/3 tube to russell square on the piccadilly line). Russell square to Euston is listed as a 16 min walk, but pleasingly in the open air (I hate walking underground). It's 1 hour on the tube, with no changes and pretty much guaranteed to get seats.


* but on a bad day it can be double that.

 

[Wendy Ashworth]

We’ve been to England many times—I even lived in London for 6 months—but of course have not been everywhere on the island by any means. I’m putting together a visit for next Fall, and would like to solicit any comments or feedback you might want to give.

First of all, I should mention that my husband had given up going across the Atlantic. We’re both 82, but he feels it way more than I do. Therefore I’ve taken several trips, to Portugal, Spain, and the 5 Stans, alone. But recently something made him want to go to Bath! So I jumped on that and made flight reservations already for next fall—9/9 (my birthday) to 9/30! Here’s my itinerary so far:
9/10-9/12 London
9/13-9/15. Liverpool (we’ve never been and are part of the Beatles generation)
9/16-9/18. Coney, Wales (less than 2 hours by bus from Liverpool and reportedly beautiful)
9/19-9/20 - Mid Wales (to break up 6 hour train ride)
9/21-9/28. Bath, with day trips to Wells, etc
9/29 London
9/30. Home

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Hello,
I admire your determination. Bath is a joy. I know the city very well but probably not as well as Pauline. My mother grew up there and although most of my relatives have now moved out or on I spent many happy childhood holidays at The Circus or Royal Crescent not knowing or understanding how fortunate I was, until I reached 13 or so.
My late husband and I got engaged in Sally Lunn’s.
I have lots of gentle suggestions for you but in my opinion it’s a perfect location for SlowTravel as it’s richly rewarding. I’ll save those for now but as Ian points out our trains are not easy to get on or off. Each company does, however, offer “ assisted travel” for anyone who would find it tricky to do either independently.
I use the service for all my train journeys. I find it to be about 95 per cent reliable and most staff are very well trained cheerful and polite.

Passenger Assist | National Rail

Book assisted travel on National Rail services with Passenger Assist. You can book in advance, any time up to 2 hours before your journey is due to start.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

There is no charge for the service by the way.

 

[NoSpin]

We were in the Cotswolds in June and we booked a tour of Bath with Cheryl. I would highly recommend her.

https://www.toursbylocals.com/tours/united-kingdom/bath/tour-details/bath-city-walking-tour-the-great-the-good-and-the-not-so-good-664d256f1bbe5b817c37de06