Naples and the Elena Ferrante novels

[Pauline]

Elena Ferrante has published four novels set in Naples, following characters from one neighborhood through their lives. The central character is Elena Greco who turns into a writer who writes about her life. She is in her early 20s in 1965. The neighborhood is working class and most are not well educated. Most of the women live very traditional lives. The "swinging 60s" doesn't seem to have made it there.

Elena Ferrante is a pseudonym and people assume it is because she, like her fictional character, is writing about her own life.

I just finished the second book in the series and I was glued to it and the first one (My Brilliant Friend and The Story of a New Name). Two more to go!

Is anyone else reading these? What do you think? Why are they so captivating?

Here are a couple of articles about her.

The Guardian - Who is the real Italian novelist writing as Elena Ferrante? By Lizzie Davies, 14 Oct 2014
As the fame of the Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay author grows, so does the guessing game about her identity

The Telegraph - Farewell to Elena Ferrante's brilliant Neapolitan Novels, by Francesca Wade , 22 August 2015

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Pauline,
I originally mentioned these novels. I'm on the 4th. I'm totally enchanted. I'm tired of all the hype about the author's identity. What I haven't read is a good critical analysis. I disagree that the 60s passed by w/o an impact. Things were different in Italy. It was a violent period with various left and right factions. I think the author describes these very well.

As well, Elena writes a book describing her own coming to consciousness as well as her experience in a woman's consciousness raising group. She is definitely a woman full of contradictions.

Of course, much of what she describes is of working class Naples torn apart by class and mafia type issues.

I'd love to discuss the novels in detail but,perhaps, this is not the forum for a lengthy discussion.

Glad to see you're back online.

 

[Rebecca]

I'm halfway through the first and I'm really enjoying it. I'm looking forward to the rest.

 

[Pauline]

I would like to talk about the books here if anyone is up for it. I want to have a look at Google Maps to find some of the places she mentions. We spent a few nights in Naples about 10 years ago.

We finally have internet again!

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I would like to talk about the books here if anyone is up for it. I want to have a look at Google Maps to find some of the places she mentions. We spent a few nights in Naples about 10 years ago.

We finally have internet again!

Yay for internet!!

I'm almost finished the fourth and last one. OMG, I don't want to spoil it for anyone by giving away anything. just to say each book is better and more intense than the last one. I believe she wrote them as one novel and then had to section them off for publication. Naples figures more prominently as the series progresses. However, this is definitely not a travelogue.

I've devoured all of the books. Each story holds together but is connected to the next. One long narrative. Very layered. I'd love to have a discussion after you've finished, Pauline. Although I think one can discuss the main characters and their relationship w/o necessarily reading all 4 novels.

 

[Pauline]

I am still on #3. I like what she has done with the two main characters, Lila who does not get an education and stays in Naples and Elena who gets an education and marries outside of her neighborhood and class. It seems that she is presenting the two possibilities these women had for life - stay in the neighborhood or leave.

I find the names confusing. The fact that Lila is called by several variations of her name, plus by her surname and her married surname. And many of the other names are similar.

One episode from the first book that I liked was when a group of them went for dinner. They are nervous leaving their neighborhood and they had never been out for dinner, except for pizza. And they didn't like it very much. Things are very different now, but I remember having my first dinner in a restaurant when I was 15 (1970) and what it felt like.

Maybe that is part of the attraction of these books for me. I left my neighborhood and my friends stayed. It was nothing like the poverty in the Ferrante novel, but I left behind friends and family and a lifestyle that was expected of me. I am sure many of us did this - and that is probably part of the reason these books are so popular. Plus the character development is very good.

Lila is a very interesting character, but I find it odd that she is so down and out in book 3. I do understand that once you get to a certain level of poverty it is almost impossible to leave your job and find another, but it seems so extremely different from her life in book 2. She is presented as being brilliant and beautiful - I would have thought she could figure a way out.

 

[Chris]

I've only read the first book so far, but I see what you mean about leaving home and the life expected of you -- I did too. I'll be thinking about that this week when I take my mom "home" to Montana for a visit. I need to get started on book 2!

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I am still on #3. I like what she has done with the two main characters, Lila who does not get an education and stays in Naples and Elena who gets an education and marries outside of her neighborhood and class. It seems that she is presenting the two possibilities these women had for life - stay in the neighborhood or leave.

I find the names confusing. The fact that Lila is called by several variations of her name, plus by her surname and her married surname. And many of the other names are similar.

One episode from the first book that I liked was when a group of them went for dinner. They are nervous leaving their neighborhood and they had never been out for dinner, except for pizza. And they didn't like it very much. Things are very different now, but I remember having my first dinner in a restaurant when I was 15 (1970) and what it felt like.

Maybe that is part of the attraction of these books for me. I left my neighborhood and my friends stayed. It was nothing like the poverty in the Ferrante novel, but I left behind friends and family and a lifestyle that was expected of me. I am sure many of us did this - and that is probably part of the reason these books are so popular. Plus the character development is very good.

Lila is a very interesting character, but I find it odd that she is so down and out in book 3. I do understand that once you get to a certain level of poverty it is almost impossible to leave your job and find another, but it seems so extremely different from her life in book 2. She is presented as being brilliant and beautiful - I would have thought she could figure a way out.

Pauline,
I feel I can't comment w/o giving things away. But I can say that I have difficulty with the Lila character. She doesn't seem as realistic to me as Elena. But I can see how a woman like her who has escaped an abusive marriage without much education can end up in dire straits.

Remember we see Lila through Elena's eyes and I wonder if she is a totally reliable narrator. She is definitely better off in book 2 but still lower middle class I think.

You will have to read all four books to really see where the author takes us and even then....

 

[Pauline]

I started the last book today. Lila seems to be one of those people who are very smart, but are perhaps their own worst enemy. She changes lifestyle and life goals so many times. I thought that many the author was doing a "Fight Club" thing here, where the two main characters are different versions of one character - but now I don't think so. I don't feel much sympathy for Lila.

I am still enthralled by these books. The way the story is told feels very intimate, like you are right there.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I don't know anything about "Fight Club" but I thought the same thing. flip side of same coin but having read all 4 volumes, I'm not sure. Lila is the most awkward character for me. She's too beautiful, too smart, too sarcastic etc. She doesn't seem real. Yet she is the most important character in the series. What is the author saying?

I thought the novels captured the zeitgeist of the changing times. Especially as we moved into contemporary times with the rise of feminism and the competing political movements in Italy.

Naples played a larger role as well. I googled Piazza dei Martiri and it's one of the biggest squares. I found that fascinating. I imagine all the locations are real.

I hated the covers. I don't know what the publishers were thinking. Really didn't reflect the amazing saga or the literary quality.

 

[Valerie]

I read the first book. Haven't downloaded the second one yet. I was torn on this one. The writing really does draw you in, despite not really totally liking neither Elena nor Lila. Yet she writes in a way that makes you want to keep reading. Their friendship is such a flawed one, with jealousy and competition to a certain degree, and yet so deep and raw at the same time. It's almost like a voyeuristic journey, that you're watching from next door and can't quit looking out your window.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Their friendship is such a flawed one, with jealousy and competition to a certain degree, and yet so deep and raw at the same time. It's almost like a voyeuristic journey, that you're watching from next door and can't quit looking out your window.

I think that is a good description of their friendship. Aside from their relationship which is the core of the novels, a lot of other stuff happens. But if the first book made you queasy and feel like a voyeur,, the others are more intense.

Jealousy and competition defined many female relationships pre feminism and sadly still does. Girls can be mean and spiteful to one another. The author depicts this well s she does in portraying different facets of Napelese society.

 

[Valerie]

I'm not saying it made me queasy. And I meant voyeristic in a good way, like Rear Window, watching things unfold and getting drawn in. I think she writes a really interesting dynamic between these two, and depicts their world in a way that makes you feel you're there watching it.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I stand corrected and looking forward to hearing your response to the other novels.

 

[Pauline]

I finally finished all four books. Wow! They follow the same group of people from childhood into their 60s. I loved the first two books and enjoyed the third and fourth but probably not as much as the earlier ones. All those long descriptions of computer programming in the 70s put me off (I lived that - I don't need to read about it).

Interesting attitudes to marriage and relationships. I thought the people weren't "modern" enough in the first book, with such limited expectations for women, but by the third book the women are very modern - long term relationships with men who have a family with them, plus a family with someone else.

The big plot twist in the fourth book is predicted by the book title "The Story of the Lost Child" and what happens to Lila is talked about since the first book.

I know I will be thinking a lot about these books. Very intense. They seem very Italian to me - the relationships, the passions, life in the neighborhood. In the end they made me want to visit Naples again.

NOTE - to insert a spoiler, click the INSERT button on top (to the right of the MEDIA button) and then type in the text.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Well, I don't think all the plot twists in the 4th book are foreshadowed. I was pretty surprised at a major one. Clue title. Also, imo, the only "modern" woman was Elena. the others may have had 2 families but not through choice. I thought much of the plot underscored how we are influenced by our background/ class/parenting. No one really escapes. A little depressing.
What did you think of Lina/Lila? Did you find her realistic? Was she some kind of archetype?
I'm trying not to give anything away.
I agree. Very intense. I was gripped.

 

[Pauline]

I did not like Lila. She seemed a bit crazy and volatile. She was a great character in the novel because her life was very interesting.

I liked seeing the whole lives of the characters - how they started out and what they became. Plus the influence of the gangsters (almost Mafia) in the neighborhood.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Lila was definitely not like able. I agree. But I felt the author was trying to say something with her character. But I don't know what. The gangster stuff was interesting and scary. You can see how the mafia ruled everything. I also thought Elena's friend the trans gendered or gay guy(forget his name) was fascinating. But why did he start looking like Lina? Bizarre. And how come everyone fell in love with her?
Anyway, with regards to travel, it does kinda make me interested in Naples.

 

[jan]

I just started the first one and so I scrolled down most of this thread. Don't want any spoilers--but I just love the first few chapters so much that I convinced my book group to read it next. Will check back in when I finish.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Jan,
Yes better avoid spoilers. Although I think they are all intended to be 1 novel, each each one can stand on its own. The 1st one would be a good book club read.