BryanS
100+ Posts
Venice was packed again during the Easter weekend and this article mentions reinstating the entry fees again later this year.
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The Guardian reports that there will be a fee of up to 10 Euros per tourist per day. While probably a nice way to help fund the expenditures involved in dealing with so many tourists, I don't see how this will bring their numbers down. Overtourism is still a problem looking for a solution, and I don't believe there will be any in the near future - unless pandemics and other disasters count. So long as so many people are willing to go to such crowded destinations - and so many profit from this - I don't see a change on the horizon. It's a mindset issue, and as such very hard to change.
BryanS
100+ Posts
When announced pre-pandemic, the idea was to require day visitors to pre-register and pay the tax with limitations on the number of available visitors per day. With the ban on cruise ships the idea is to limit the influx of 'day trippers'. Fees and capacity limits will not apply to those with lodging reservations. Of course with any new program, they are working on the logistics.
Indeed, some of the more "extreme" steps are supposed to be initiated this summer. It will be interesting when we will hear of the first tourist that was denied access to Venice because of a quota limit. I still find it hard to believe that this will happen.
NoSpin
100+ Posts
I just received this article -
Venice will finally look to implement its much-discussed fee for day visitors next year on a trial basis after initially postponing it.
The fee, which will cost €5 ($5.36) per person, will be imposed on all travelers over 14 years old who come to the famous canal city for the day, Reuters reported, citing the city council. The fee will be implemented on a trial basis mainly during spring bank holidays and summer weekends when the city is at its most crowded.
An exact date of when the trial will go into effect was not immediately clear.
Venice tourism councilor Simone Venturini told the wire service the goal is to find "a new balance between the rights of those who live, study or work in Venice and those who visit the city.”
Venice first floated the idea of a visitor fee for day trippers in 2019, but the passage was delayed, in part, due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The city then looked to implement it in 2022 before delaying it again until 2023 and then postponing once more.
Overnight visitors who currently book a hotel stay are already subject to a different tax.
The day tax is being implemented in an effort to prevent over-tourism in a city known as a bucket list destination for many who visit Italy. In fact, Reuters noted tourists often outnumber residents.
In the last several years, Venice has made efforts to preserve its unique attributes, including declaring the waterways around the city a "national monument" and banning large cruise ships from passing through its canals. The measures earned the city a temporary reprieve from being included on the UNESCO World Heritage danger list.
However, last month, UNESCO once again recommended adding the city to the list, calling the efforts "currently insufficient and not detailed enough."
Beyond the city of Venice, travelers to Europe also will have to pay an extra fee next year when the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) goes into effect. That fee will cost €7 ($7.51) and be valid for three years or until the expiration date of someone's travel document.
Venice to Implement Day Trip Fee Next Year — What to Know
The day trip fee, which has been talked about for years, will not apply to travelers staying overnight. They are already subjected to a different fee.Venice will finally look to implement its much-discussed fee for day visitors next year on a trial basis after initially postponing it.
The fee, which will cost €5 ($5.36) per person, will be imposed on all travelers over 14 years old who come to the famous canal city for the day, Reuters reported, citing the city council. The fee will be implemented on a trial basis mainly during spring bank holidays and summer weekends when the city is at its most crowded.
An exact date of when the trial will go into effect was not immediately clear.
Venice tourism councilor Simone Venturini told the wire service the goal is to find "a new balance between the rights of those who live, study or work in Venice and those who visit the city.”
Venice first floated the idea of a visitor fee for day trippers in 2019, but the passage was delayed, in part, due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The city then looked to implement it in 2022 before delaying it again until 2023 and then postponing once more.
Overnight visitors who currently book a hotel stay are already subject to a different tax.
The day tax is being implemented in an effort to prevent over-tourism in a city known as a bucket list destination for many who visit Italy. In fact, Reuters noted tourists often outnumber residents.
In the last several years, Venice has made efforts to preserve its unique attributes, including declaring the waterways around the city a "national monument" and banning large cruise ships from passing through its canals. The measures earned the city a temporary reprieve from being included on the UNESCO World Heritage danger list.
However, last month, UNESCO once again recommended adding the city to the list, calling the efforts "currently insufficient and not detailed enough."
Beyond the city of Venice, travelers to Europe also will have to pay an extra fee next year when the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) goes into effect. That fee will cost €7 ($7.51) and be valid for three years or until the expiration date of someone's travel document.
Alpinista
100+ Posts
A $5 fee is not going to deter anyone. Possibly the revenues from the fee can be used towards maintenance of the city areas affected by tourism, but that would also be a limited benefit. I think the true deterrence would be recognition that the Venice of tourism dreams disappeared decades ago, but as long as cruise ships can find people who think that some hours on a shore excursion counts as "doing Venice", then the masses are going to continue to come.
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
I'm intrigued by the logistics of such a charge.
Will they go for an 'honesty system' like Cinque Terre coastal paths, but with random checks. That seems less practical than in CT.
Or try to push the onus onto transport providers, e.g. making it a near compulsory addition to train / coach / boat / plane passengers, with checks as they disembark - or alternatively require shops/restaurants to check?
Maybe a totally electronic system?
Have a checking focus on the key tourist hotspots within Venice, which might naturally encourage others to avoid the hotspots in order to avoid the charge?
In line with Alpinista's comments, this all feels a world away from my own interest in Italy, which very much extends to enjoying the culture and untouristic charm. I find Verona and Siena overly touristic, so I think I'd be deeply troubled by the mass tourism of Venice, and I doubt that will reduce until it's irrevocably sunk below the waves.
Will they go for an 'honesty system' like Cinque Terre coastal paths, but with random checks. That seems less practical than in CT.
Or try to push the onus onto transport providers, e.g. making it a near compulsory addition to train / coach / boat / plane passengers, with checks as they disembark - or alternatively require shops/restaurants to check?
Maybe a totally electronic system?
Have a checking focus on the key tourist hotspots within Venice, which might naturally encourage others to avoid the hotspots in order to avoid the charge?
In line with Alpinista's comments, this all feels a world away from my own interest in Italy, which very much extends to enjoying the culture and untouristic charm. I find Verona and Siena overly touristic, so I think I'd be deeply troubled by the mass tourism of Venice, and I doubt that will reduce until it's irrevocably sunk below the waves.
Agree with Alpinista. Only a much higher tax might cause some foreign tourists to shorten their stay, but in any case not cancel it altogether. Anyone who travels abroad will be spending quite a bit of money as it is.
Would I happily pay a higher tax to visit a place that I think is irresistible for me? Yes. But I would not be willing to go to an "overtouristed" destination, even if they paid me. I've seen Verona and Venice, both for a day, and while they are probably among the most beautiful cities I have seen, I am definitely never going back - exactly because of the crowds (and this was November). Too much for me, personally.
There is a lovely word that was coined about twenty years ago, to describe the distress one feels while seeing the area of one's home altered by climate change : solastalgia. From a combination of Latin and Greek for "comfort" and "suffering". It is a feeling of being homesick while still being at home, a longing for the home as it once was, but isn't any more - because of environmental causes.
I think there should be a similar word for the distress caused by seeing the effects of overtourism. Maybe the word could be turbalgia - from the Latin turba, for crowd, mob, disturbance.
Alpinista
100+ Posts
A nomination for inclusion on the Oxford Dictionary New Words list.
My first visit to Venice was 35+ years ago and I was just amazed at the beauty and history. Each succeeding visit left me less and less impressed and the final one sent me home thinking that I had not met a single shopkeeper, waiter, or hotel staff on that trip who didn't just want money handed over and for me and the other tourists in town to pick up and leave. A lasting memory is a waiter (and I admit my Italian sounds like an American speaking Italian) who told me, "Just say it in English. What do you want??". I have a lot of nice long-ago memories of Venice. I won't be forming any new ones.
A great anecdote. Unfortunately.
@Alpinista, I hadn't thought of suggesting the word for inclusion in the dictionary, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll check over the weekend what this entails. Who knows, this might just be the thing that will bring the crowds to this forum and make Pauline happy...
.If anything, it might encourage others with better language skills than mine to think of an apt and much-needed term for this aspect of today's life.
“Just say it in English, what do you want??” My reports are slow to come but one should include a conversation with a realtor in Alba, she approached us window shopping, I explained where we were from and not likely to purchase property, she invited us in the shop anyways and we were curious about current properties and prices. I know little Italian, but I try to slip in a word or two….realtor then speaks real fast looking at both of us…I asked my wife if she understood and the woman then slowed down and says “your choice, English or Italian, going back and forth is very irritating!” I was more taken back by her facial expressions and body language, we did not continue the conversation she started ha! We told local friends what happened and they said it seemed odd and that they like that we try, via app, to communicate. Despite the realtor I’ll continue with my communication style ;-)
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
The only time I encountered anything similar, was that having heard over the tannoy that the next train had been cancelled, I was then explaining this to a fellow (Italian) passenger who'd not heard the message properly, and who was thus feeling stressed, so his desire to hear it in English, was just a desire to know the resolution faster.
I had to look up tannoy, understand now. That's how easily we get confused with some conversations. I probably sounded snarky in my comments, if so I apologize but I'm curious if others try to slip in local words no matter where you are? For instance, years ago I learned in the English speaking Caribbean that instead of walking into an establishment and saying "hello or hey, how are you or how's it going?" Certainly don't start with "Do you have or can I get....) you'll be received better by starting with a "good morning, good evening etc"
I once went to a store in Italy looking for instant coffee and was shown bags of drip coffee and beans, the store employee and I struggled even with the app, I knew caffe' so I looked up instant and combining those didnt work, either caffe' instantaneo or solubile worked? Realizing putting adjectives after nouns has helped me considerably! My wife wants to extend our stays in Italy by several months, it would be nice if I can develop a better understanding of the language. The last thing I want to do is "irritate" or insult anyone.
NoSpin
100+ Posts
Back in 1971, my friend and I bought Triumph motorcycles in London and then spent the summer traveling throughout Europe. When we got to Germany we didn't know how to order a beer. We pointed at a guy who was drinking one and asked, "beer?". The bartender, knowing we were Americans, smiled broadly and said, "Beer is beer".
When we got to Greece is was hot as hell. We just wanted a cold drink. My friend asked for lemonade. The man behind the counter looked puzzled. My friend several times kept repeating lemonade. Quizical look and no response. Then he said, "limonada". "Ah limonada" said the man, and we promptly got our lemonade!
When we got to Greece is was hot as hell. We just wanted a cold drink. My friend asked for lemonade. The man behind the counter looked puzzled. My friend several times kept repeating lemonade. Quizical look and no response. Then he said, "limonada". "Ah limonada" said the man, and we promptly got our lemonade!
Pauline
Forums Admin
My husband Steve swears by the DuoLingo app for learning languages. He has been doing German daily for three years and each year that we come to Switzerland he is more able to converse. For me it is hopeless (and I am lazy).
Ian Sutton
1000+ Posts
On the former, I recall being in a wonderful old-fashioned alimentari in London (I Camisa on old compton st). Whilst I was waiting in line one of the assistants took a call and amusingly berated the caller (in Italian) about diving straight into business without a greeting. I rather agreed with her.
I've certainly had a few instances where finding the Italian name for something isn't straightforward, and two things spring to mind from sending parcels back to ourselves from Italy.
The first one is bubble-wrap, which absolutely doesn't translate directly. The first attempt got there with the description 'carta plastica con aria' (bollicine in hindsight was better, and I used that the next time). I think it might go by a few names, but it seems 'moltobollo' is reasonably commonly known, and that's nothing like a direct translation.
The second turned out rather easier than expected, as when I asked (pointing at the sticky tape / sollotape), "Come sei dici (in Italiano)?", the assistant looked at me like I was mad/stupid/joking. "Scotch!" was the laughing reply, it being the common brand there (and indeed common in the UK), and she was tickled at telling me the name of an English word.
As for irritating or insulting anyone, I'm a firm believer that a genuine attempt to fit in is invariably received well (unless the person themself was having such a shitty day they were always going to share their irritation). Mistakes when corrected can often generate a shared giggle, and laughing at oneself can be a wonderful ice-breaker.
Overall, my aspiration is to converse in Italian when I'm over there, though if I'm in an informative setting e.g. a visit to a winery or similar, then we'll often compromise with them talking in English, and me in Italian, so that my partner can also follow the English. Occasionally, when someone is very confident in English, or wants the practice, we'll settle on English as a practical choice. It's rare I find an Italian whose English is weaker than my Italian, but I have met a few who were competent but not confident.
I'll also speak Italian n the UK when in a shop that is run by Italians e.g. I Camisa mentioned above, a gelateria in my home city, or the Italian pizza/pasta stall on the local market. That's mostly for my benefit, as it's a rare chance these days to practice, and they are tolerant/supportive of me doing so.
GailS
100+ Posts
It is still popular and still crowded but we still enjoy visiting. We do tend to favor activities outside of the normal high tourist areas but sometimes still visit main sights on some trips - a couple of weeks ago we took "The Doge's Hidden Treasures" tour which allowed us to see areas of the palace we had not seen before. Only 6 people total on the tour and afterwards we had access to the entire palace and I was able to easily take a photo of the bridge of sighs pathway with noone in it - surprisingly less crowded than normal in the palace. Overall crowds seemed typical for September. We also spent a day on a Venetian friend's sailboat in the southern lagoon and went to see the Barbar of Seville at Palazzo Barbarigo Minotto [thank you @Wendy Ashworth for recommending!]. I can't say what it would be like to visit a first time and want to see all the major sights (which are crowded) but as a traveler who has been to the city dozens of times I still find it unique - no cars, interesting architecture in a deteriorating state (see this site which describes how the city was built and works) and many things to do and see that are off the beaten track.