You can travel to Italy now if you own a home there

[Pauline]

We’ve been talking about this in two other threads, so I’ve started this one. Frances Mayes posted on Instagram that Ed has gone to Italy to look after a build project on their house. She says you can travel to Italy if you own a home there.

This is her Instagram post

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMC2yv7n9BC/?igshid=18td6o986fqin

Here are two screen snaps of her comments.

 

[Andrew]

So the question would be: What is the legal definition of "domicile" for this purpose? I would think that an Italian consulate would need to issue a document, and I'm not sure of what would be needed to satisfy them that I qualify. Then we would need that document to satisfy an airline check-in agent that we won't be turned away causing them a big fine; that's increasingly difficult if the check-in isn't for a non-stop to Italy. The airlines are going from information at https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/ , which basically says no to U.S. citizens coming from the U.S.

 

[Allen]

That’s my understanding as well, Andrew. Additional consideration for us even if we wanted to show up at the airport and plead our case and be prepared to be denied boarding, is if we purchased a ticket now for say a June travel date on a Delta COVID-tested flight, I’m pretty sure we’d have to use the resulting flight change credit (from being denied boarding at the airport) within a year from now (date of purchase), not a year from date of being denied boarding. So guess we’ll just try to sit tight and hope Italy opens to US travelers by September. And perhaps there’s more to the Frances Mayes story than meets the eye (something related to their building project she refers to)?

 

[BryanS]

As Frances Mayes repeats..."contact the embassy!". You must contact your local Italian consulate or embassy for the current procedures and approval before heading to the airport.

 

[Allen]

I have no more information than anyone else reading the Local.it and similar blog sites. But I’m sure we all agree that your advice is definitely a wise idea and right now should be protocol as part of making travel plans, Bryan. But stories online and in news reports suggest even that office cannot guarantee you will succeed even if they say you should be able to. I personally think that unless you fall into one of the clearly exempt traveler categories (e.g, health care worker in Italy, etc.) or have some form of official residency (e.g., permesso status, etc) or an acceptable ‘essential’ justification (here’s where it gets more subjective), then I think as of now you still have to consider it a gamble that you will be allowed to board a flight and enter Italy. Absent that, there may be things that improve your odds (letter from a consulate, getting vaccinated and tested, willingness to quarantine, having an urgent building project on your property, etc.), but like betting at the racetrack, it seems - at this time - it would still be prudent to take the risk only if you can comfortably afford to lose the bet. Hopefully we hear from more people who have recently tried their luck so we can get more clarity in the short term, while we await official unambiguous openness to tourism from the US in the longer term. I have to say, the Frances Mayes report surprised and confused me.

 

[Pauline]

I have to say, the Frances Mayes report surprised and confused me.

Me too!!

 

[Andrew]

I looked at the Italian text of the regulations, which refer to returning to one's domicilio, abitazione o residenza as valid reasons for entering from Group E countries, including the U.S. I take them all to mean the place where one lives, but there are pieces in Italian such as this explaining the difference in COVID rules context, in this case mostly for travel between regions.

Residenza is one's official residence showing on one's ID card.

Domicilio is the jurisdiction where one works, including being enrolled as a student, so it was questionable to see Mayes use the word "domicile" as justification.

Abitazione is less clearly defined, and could be a place where one regularly spends some time, including a second home. They say a purchase contract could be valid proof. That's my rough reading, but I agree with Allen that it would be good to get more precise reports from those who have done this.

 

[vicogirl51]

I believe this is the form Frances Mayes is talking about. Looks like part V would apply as Return to Domicile.
file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/88/08/CEB0392B-618B-47D4-8679-5248481ADDF5/modulo_rientro_da_estero__26_08_20_inglese.pdf

 

[Alpinista]

While we're discussing the parsing of terms, maybe the bottom line is that the Italian government does not want us there and that maybe we shouldn't be there?? Science is still not settled on vaccinated people being asymptomatic spreaders and, even if 95% efficacy, I've cashed enough 20-1 shot tickets at the race track in my life to know that those are not unbeatable odds.

 

[Alpinista]

Per request of Vicogirl51

 

[vicogirl51]

I have dual citizenship and more than likely able to enter Italy but what about my husband ? And we are vaccinated!!
But...with the lack of vaccine availability in Italy do I really want to be there confined in my village or town? No restaurants open!! No bars open? Red zone Orange zone with so many restrictions. it’s not the Italy we know and love.
I don’t understand how return to domicile applies to vacation houses? Mayes must be able to get in because of who she is . She put Cortona on the map !
We are hoping for late fall if it’s safe!!!

 

[Pauline]

But...with the lack of vaccine availability in Italy do I really want to be there confined in my village or town? No restaurants open!! No bars open? Red zone Orange zone with so many restrictions. it’s not the Italy we know and love.

Exactly my thought. Italy has started more restrictions this week. I don't think it would be a fun time to be there. I can't imagine being in Italy and not going out for coffee!

 

[italian excursion]

This is not just a robust conversation/debate but an interesting one proving that it's all about perception. So, I will see what the next few weeks brings and then choose my next steps. Thank you for all the perspectives!

 

[vicogirl51]

DailyI talk to my cousin in the Lucca area and he keeps me informed on what’s really happening in Italy.
When he finally says to me it’s time COME that’s the day we will get our on hold tickets from last year and GO!! Believe me I am homesick for my village my family my friends and my house. I feel as if I’m losing vital years of my life since Covid!

 

[Allen]

Don’t know how relevant or generalizable this is, but based on reports like the one above by Mr. Mayes, I recently contacted the office of the Italian general consul in Chicago for clarification of the ‘domicile’ qualification, and they wanted nothing to do with weighing in on this question or any other request for facilitating in any way one’s efforts to gain entry into Italy, only repeatedly referring all questions to a search on official government websites. So not sure how others who reportedly found it beneficial to try and enlist the aid of this office for these matters achieved success.
In any case, I hope/guess this is now a moot point and we vaccinated and covid negative travelers will all soon be able to travel by filling out easily downloaded standard required forms, obtaining green passes, etc. and be welcome back in Italy.

 

[Allen]

Any updates from members with actual first hand experience of trying to board a flight without a permesso or Italian passport?
Thanks