Sojourner
10+ Posts
Chris, as others have now written, you do not need to pay for business class to get decent legroom. I think most airlines now have some version of 'premium economy' which just means seats that are at an emergency exit (more legroom because they have to allow enough space for people to use that exit and that space is regulated by law) or at a bulkhead where again there is more room and usually an emergency exit. Some airlines sell these extra legroom seats for a pretty nominal amount.
Regarding using points, I have no problem with points. I accumulated enough Frequent Flyer points when I was working for a living, that I never had to pay for seats for years. But FF points today are not what they were back then. Here's how it used to work for me. I would phone my airline and tell them when and where I wanted to fly and they would send me a ticket in the mail. The only 'black out dates' that existed then were Xmas through New Year. I never once got told, 'sorry no FF seats available for those dates'. There were no allocated FF seats then, all the seats on all the planes were available to FF point users. So no need to find a route that my points would cover for given dates. If a non-stop existed I got on it. Nor did I ever pay one cent in taxes, etc. Nothing, zilch, nada. I flew 100% free so to speak on my FF points. After I retired (28 years ago), I flew to Europe and back once a year for 6 years on accumulated FF points. I'd book a seat in one direction and a return 364 days later. If I wanted to, I would just phone and change the return to an earlier date. No charge, no 'no seat available' ever. FF points back then were really of value. Today, not so much. As you say, today the taxes and fees you have to pay on top of FF points can be as much as the cost of a seat is. Now you have to find 'award availability'. Now some FF programs have a time limit on their points after which they 'disappear' if you haven't used them.
So the real value of FF points has decreased tremendously over time. So much so that I think people now have to ask are they even worth using anymore? Hence my comment that 'everything has a price'. There is a price you now pay that I did not pay years ago when using FF points. You pay that price in $ and convenience. If I were still using FF points today, I think I would confine their use only to when what they got me was as convenient as paying for a ticket would get me and for less money. If I can fly N. America to Europe for under $1000 on a non-stop flight in Premium Economy (or $1500 in Business Class), I would not choose instead to fly on dates that weren't my first choice and a route that had stops that increased my travel time and then still had to pay $500 or more in taxes. The FF points wouldn't be valueless, but they wouldn't be valuable enough to make me use them in a case like that.
Even if you insist on Business Class Chris there are still times when paying for a ticket is better than using your FF points and of course if you pay for your ticket it is on any flight you want. Here is a good article on when to use or not use your points. Don't compare your FF points value to the standard Business Class fare, compare it to the 'on sale' fares. And also, if you can, pick which airline you make that transatlantic flight on. US carriers generally don't compare well to others. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/07/23/use-miles-pay-ticket-instead/
And that brings me to Roz who brings up another good point. It pays to know the difference between airlines and the planes themselves. Not all airlines are equal in what they provide and not all planes are equal either in what you can expect in terms of space, etc. So whether using FF points or paying for a ticket, it pays to consider the airline and the plane in the equation. Sometimes paying a little more even a little less with another airline can result in a better flight experience.
Jan55612, it's interesting that you drive to Ontario (Thunder Bay?) and then fly Air Canada. Many Canadians do the opposite. Drive from Southwestern Ontario to Detroit and fly from there. The airport taxes etc. in Canada are higher than in the USA and so driving to Detroit and then flying a 'domestic' flight from say Detroit to Boston or NYC, is cheaper than from Toronto to those cities even though Toronto is closer to them than Detroit is. I think the point is that sometimes looking a little 'outside the box' can be a good idea.
Regarding using points, I have no problem with points. I accumulated enough Frequent Flyer points when I was working for a living, that I never had to pay for seats for years. But FF points today are not what they were back then. Here's how it used to work for me. I would phone my airline and tell them when and where I wanted to fly and they would send me a ticket in the mail. The only 'black out dates' that existed then were Xmas through New Year. I never once got told, 'sorry no FF seats available for those dates'. There were no allocated FF seats then, all the seats on all the planes were available to FF point users. So no need to find a route that my points would cover for given dates. If a non-stop existed I got on it. Nor did I ever pay one cent in taxes, etc. Nothing, zilch, nada. I flew 100% free so to speak on my FF points. After I retired (28 years ago), I flew to Europe and back once a year for 6 years on accumulated FF points. I'd book a seat in one direction and a return 364 days later. If I wanted to, I would just phone and change the return to an earlier date. No charge, no 'no seat available' ever. FF points back then were really of value. Today, not so much. As you say, today the taxes and fees you have to pay on top of FF points can be as much as the cost of a seat is. Now you have to find 'award availability'. Now some FF programs have a time limit on their points after which they 'disappear' if you haven't used them.
So the real value of FF points has decreased tremendously over time. So much so that I think people now have to ask are they even worth using anymore? Hence my comment that 'everything has a price'. There is a price you now pay that I did not pay years ago when using FF points. You pay that price in $ and convenience. If I were still using FF points today, I think I would confine their use only to when what they got me was as convenient as paying for a ticket would get me and for less money. If I can fly N. America to Europe for under $1000 on a non-stop flight in Premium Economy (or $1500 in Business Class), I would not choose instead to fly on dates that weren't my first choice and a route that had stops that increased my travel time and then still had to pay $500 or more in taxes. The FF points wouldn't be valueless, but they wouldn't be valuable enough to make me use them in a case like that.
Even if you insist on Business Class Chris there are still times when paying for a ticket is better than using your FF points and of course if you pay for your ticket it is on any flight you want. Here is a good article on when to use or not use your points. Don't compare your FF points value to the standard Business Class fare, compare it to the 'on sale' fares. And also, if you can, pick which airline you make that transatlantic flight on. US carriers generally don't compare well to others. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/07/23/use-miles-pay-ticket-instead/
And that brings me to Roz who brings up another good point. It pays to know the difference between airlines and the planes themselves. Not all airlines are equal in what they provide and not all planes are equal either in what you can expect in terms of space, etc. So whether using FF points or paying for a ticket, it pays to consider the airline and the plane in the equation. Sometimes paying a little more even a little less with another airline can result in a better flight experience.
Jan55612, it's interesting that you drive to Ontario (Thunder Bay?) and then fly Air Canada. Many Canadians do the opposite. Drive from Southwestern Ontario to Detroit and fly from there. The airport taxes etc. in Canada are higher than in the USA and so driving to Detroit and then flying a 'domestic' flight from say Detroit to Boston or NYC, is cheaper than from Toronto to those cities even though Toronto is closer to them than Detroit is. I think the point is that sometimes looking a little 'outside the box' can be a good idea.
Roz, does Madrid appeal?
