Would you get one of the first vaccines if it meant you could travel internationally?

[wco81]

I can see documenting vaccination be something that some countries or states may require.

For instance, some countries and Hawaii are requesting proof of negative PCR test taken within 72 hours of flight departure.

 

[aap519]

Moderna says its vaccine is 94.5% effective in preventing Covid-19

....Crucially, Moderna also announced that its vaccine can remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 2 degrees Celsius to 8 degrees Celsius (36 degrees Fahrenheit to 46 degrees Fahrenheit) for 30 days...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...cit8nq7JJUuY9Y-HfgETEs7BI813GmXLtAuBUQ1CGKbSQ

 

[joe]

The fine print, if I have understood the news correctly, is that this success rate is based on a trial where only 5 (!) people were given the vaccine. The remaining 90 received a placebo. So this means that basically all the five didn't contract the disease. But this is a very small number to build such a glowing account on, I would think. Am I missing something?

 

[wco81]

The fine print, if I have understood the news correctly, is that this success rate is based on a trial where only 5 (!) people were given the vaccine. The remaining 90 received a placebo. So this means that basically all the five didn't contract the disease. But this is a very small number to build such a glowing account on, I would think. Am I missing something?

No the way it works is that they've injected tens of thousands of people, 30k in the case of Moderna (15k placebo, 15k vaccine).

Then they wait until enough people have become infected and an independent body then checks to see whether the infected got the placebo or the vaccine.

Based on that, they found 90 of the infected people got a placebo and 5 of the infected got the vaccine.


This is preliminary data but in a couple of weeks, they will reach more number of infected and then see again what percentage are placebo and what percentage are vaccine.

They're they're expected to apply for Emergency Use Authorization with the FDA and similar approval with the European agency.


This is why the poll question becomes interesting. These first two vaccines have very good initial results. There's a good chance anyone will be able to get one or the other by the spring.

But there are dozens of other vaccines in the pipeline. Some of them may prove to be more effective. Specifically, they may stimulate more antibodies and T cells to kill the coronavirus than these two vaccines.

So do you wait or you get it in the spring, in time to be able to travel in the late spring and summer?

 

[Georgia & Zig]

And here's an interesting item : an Italian study that interviewed 1000 citizens found that about half them would be hesitant about a corona vaccine. Apparently a significant factor is lack of trust in the safety of a vaccine.

https://www.thelocal.it/20201014/almost-half-of-all-people-in-italy-hesitant-about-covid-vaccine-study-finds

I volunteered to take the Jansen Vaccine. At least I hope I got it. The trial is being done here in Lexinton, KY. I feel fine. Haven't gotten sick.
I'll go back to be checked next month.

 

[Georgia & Zig]

The fine print, if I have understood the news correctly, is that this success rate is based on a trial where only 5 (!) people were given the vaccine. The remaining 90 received a placebo. So this means that basically all the five didn't contract the disease. But this is a very small number to build such a glowing account on, I would think. Am I missing something?

50% get the real thing!

 

[joe]

@wco81 : thanks for the explanation, and after some additional reading, I see where matters stand.
Out of the 30000 volunteers in the trial, they checked 95 infected and found that only 5 had received the vaccine. This still seems to me a rather small lot to justify running to the press like that...but probably good for the company's stock .
I suppose that with the whole world watching and waiting impatiently, this is good news in any case.
As to your question : personally I will still wait until travel is possible without it being compulsory to be vaccinated.

 

[Pauline]

I read online that the country singer Dolly Parton was involved with funding the Moderna research. (And she does a lot around the world for literacy.) Interesting!

There is endless news about these vaccines in the UK. Since our lockdowns don’t seem to work, everyone is waiting for the vaccine.

 

[milgreen2]

this information we're getting now on these first 2 vaccines is just the press-release version. both companies will be submitting far more detailed data to the FDA with their emergency use authorization applications. and then there will be article submissions to peer-reviewed journals, so before long we should be seeing the data on statistical significance and power, which will help put these numbers in perspective.

 

[Alpinista]

And, here's the trip report for going to Bermuda in Covid times -- Washington National/Atlanta/Bermuda. Tested 3 days prior to getting a travel authorization to travel.

Tested again upon landing at airport and quarantined in lodgings until report sent via email (about 6 hours, so not bad at all -- flight landed in late afternoon, so meant room service for dinner and email arriving before bedtime, so free to enjoy the trip starting with breakfast and beyond). Had a second test after 4 days in country and, again, results within a few hours. We were temperature checked every time we turned around and were handed or directed to hand sanitizers as soon as the thermometers were done zapping us.

Absolute conformance by everyone we saw (on and off property) with masking and distancing. Airline (Delta) seating had 50% set-asides in business and middle seats blocked in coach. Food service was in plastic bags and boxes and bottles (interestingly, could get water, beer and wine, but no sodas). Terminals were pretty empty and only point of being "together" was on train between terminals in Atlanta.

I counted 20 names on the breakfast list at the start of our trip and that count was down to about 10 on our last day. The property was very large (Cambridge Beaches) and we pretty much had everything from pools to beaches to spa facilities to ourselves every day -- temps were in mid-70's throughout, so a great diversion from Washington, DC, weather (and the daily news).

Not sure how much of this experience I would transfer to European travel (only about 20 Covid cases in Bermuda out of population of 63,000), but did find it far less stressful in transit and in site that I thought I would.

 

[Allen]

I’d quite trust any vaccine approved after Jan. 20 and would definitely feel safer afterwards living in a world where so many people prefer to reject the option and comfortably, even if unintentionally, risk carrying the bug around to others.

 

[joe]

I’d quite trust any vaccine approved after Jan. 20 and would definitely feel safer afterwards living in a world where so many people prefer to reject the option and comfortably, even if unintentionally, risk carrying the bug around to others.

Why "comfortably"? If I prefer not to be vaccinated - for example, against the flu - then I am choosing first of all to take the risk of becoming sick myself. This is my liberty, as long as a flu vaccine is not compulsory by law. This makes me take more responsibility for my health, not less, by striving to maintain a healthy immune system.

In the case of a potential vaccine for Covid, there is still no evidence that being vaccinated will not make you a carrier - it's just too early to know. So theoretically, at least, you could be vaccinated against Covid and still - "comfortably" - be a carrier. Unlikely, perhaps, but still an unknown.

This is just for the record, and not in any way to contradict your personal preference to be vaccinated. I am in full support of anyone wishing to get a Covid vaccine as soon as possible, if this gives them peace of mind.

I hope that in the coming year things will become clearer concerning what exactly a Covid vaccine can achieve. Until then - even at the price of not traveling abroad - I will avoid it. We are already seeing people - even on this forum - who are managing to travel safely and enjoyably, even though no vaccine yet exists on the market.

Is an ideal world one in which there is a compulsory vaccine for every disease? That might be a good question for students of bio-ethics....

 

[Allen]

Absolutely agree it’s your right to do what you want with your own body. But can you see that your choice can have an impact on the welfare of others? Still, I would not want anyone to feel coerced into a decision about this or disrespected for their decision, and so all the more reason for me to want to be vaccinated and safely and respectfully coexist with those who choose otherwise.

 

[joe]

Absolutely agree it’s your right to do what you want with your own body. But can you see that your choice can have an impact on the welfare of others?

Yes, I can. Many many things that we do have an impact on the welfare of others, and we all have to find the way to balance these things as best as we can, and according to our beliefs.
Where doing this becomes beyond the individual's or the public's abilities or desires, regulation steps in. It is usually everyone's hope that this regulation is done as professionally and as unbiased as possible, but we know that this does not always happen.

 

[Allen]

Fair enough. Good luck to both of us.

 

[joe]

A nice overview of open questions concerning a possible vaccine, from today's Guardian.

Two excerpts :
"The virus comes in and it lands on your mucosal surfaces,” explains Krammer. “If it’s neutralised right there, it’s game over.” Unable to replicate and penetrate deeper into the body’s tissues, the virus is prevented from causing not only disease but also infection, meaning the person can transmit it no further. It’s not yet clear if the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines block transmission, as well as preventing disease, but a vaccine that did so could bring the pandemic to an end sooner. And it could do it without the need for an injection – just by using a nasal spray or inhaler."

"The best news of all is that at least two vaccines now exist that seem to protect us against Covid-19 and that the chances are high that some of the most vulnerable people in the world will benefit from them within months. It remains an extraordinary and unprecedented feat to have built such a vaccine, and shown it to be safe and effective, before the disease they protect against is one year old – and before the pandemic is over."

 

[SMJ]

We won't have a vaccine for at least a couple of years, until we see how clinical trials go, and what side effects and long term effects make themselves known.
As a nurse, I'm very leery of injecting something into myself without proper oversight on the part of the medical and pharmaceutical community.
I'm an avid traveler, but happy to stay home till the kinks are ironed out.

 

[wco81]

There's a lot of momentum with the vaccines because there seems to be no other alternatives for dealing with the pandemic, which is peaking right now, after we've been dealing with it most of the year.

So they will roll out these first vaccines and offer them to health care workers. Not only them but also anyone else who works in the hospital so these would be people not involved in care but would be exposed to covid patients daily.

Will they agree to be vaccinated? We should find out why Christmas. A lot of health care workers were retiring or quitting because they've been inundated all year.

 

[joe]

So they will roll out these first vaccines and offer them to health care workers....
Will they agree to be vaccinated? We should find out why Christmas. A lot of health care workers were retiring or quitting because they've been inundated all year.

Not only have some health care workers left work because of the strain, some of them have become the object of personal attacks, as they have been accused of spreading the virus in their communities.
This recent article from the Guardian relates how in some places in Italy, health care workers have suffered discrimination, even though the majority of Italians still have complete trust in them.

From the article :
"Much like in other countries, Italians clapped and sang from their balconies as they supported healthcare workers during the early days of the pandemic.

Then came a rise in discrimination as people considered them to be carriers of the virus. According to a survey led by Grasselli and other colleagues in Lombardy in the spring, 25% of the 627 medics interviewed across the region reported being targets of discrimination or aggression.

Episodes included having notices with their names on pinned outside lifts in apartment buildings warning them not to enter as they might have Covid, parents banning their children from playing with those of medics, and spouses being barred from shops."

 

[phirhon]

The CEO of our national carrier has said that being vaccinated will be a pre requisite for international travel into and out of Australia on Qantas. Discussions with other airlines indicate others may follow suit. Whether countries themselves make this mandatory remains to be seen. Interesting times ahead for international travel.